Nightwulf|work: hi all
HarborMasta: i need a QAM TUNER SET TOP BOX
HarborMasta: i dont wanna spend more than $50 :(
kcodyjr: hoots and howls with laughter
kcodyjr: if you could possibly just buy a qam tuner at that price, at best it would only be able to receive unencrypted signals
kcodyjr: your nickname suggests you're from boston.
kcodyjr: you could spend, what are they $130? for a www.pchtdv.com PCI card with a QAM and NTSC tuner, but once again it will only get unencrypted channels.
kcodyjr: you cableco may bitch and moan, but they are required to retransmit the local broadcast channels without encryption. but it's basically an antenna which isn't sensitive to your house's crappy reception spot.
HarborMasta: yeah
HarborMasta: i get ntsc channels now
HarborMasta: i need clear atsc
HarborMasta: kcodyjr: So $139 is the cheapest?
kcodyjr: i don't suppose you are in fact the harbormaster of boston, ma.
HarborMasta: nope
kcodyjr: that's the best option i've found, since you're looking for linux
HarborMasta: NYC
kcodyjr: ok, had to ask. oh, really? seriously? cool. sorry about that shitbox ferry we sold you.
HarborMasta: k
HarborMasta: doesnt matter what it runs
kcodyjr: ati did come out with a new product that can accept a cablecard and actually get subscription cable tv, but it can only be got by buying it with a new vista computer. it does require tpm to run.
kcodyjr: ati may also have a simpler, non-cablecard tuner that's cheaper that can run on windows. but once again i haven't tried it. i'm using a pchdtv-5500.
HarborMasta: i guess ill mail order the tuner for $139
HarborMasta: cheapest ive found
HarborMasta: ATI chipset
HarborMasta: ATI 240
HarborMasta: set top box with ati chipset
kcodyjr: it'll get you the game in full hi def, and anything else your local broadcast channels have, but there is zero chance of tuning into paid cable channels with it.
HarborMasta: with a decoder you can
HarborMasta: :P
kcodyjr: i haven't even been looking at set top boxes, i just live with the comcast dvr that sucks.
HarborMasta: nah i just want free tv
kcodyjr: that was the old days when they used cheesy, easily-broken analog signal mangling.
HarborMasta: yeah they do that to make big $$$$$
HarborMasta: thats why i just want free tv
kcodyjr: the modern systems, it is possible, but basically requires connections so they don't revoke the unique key that you had to have stolen to make it work at all. trust me. the glory days of blackboxes are over.
HarborMasta: yup
HarborMasta: im not stealing catv
HarborMasta: just want the networks
HarborMasta: paid programming is crap, networks are essentially emergency broadcasting
HarborMasta: lol
kcodyjr: that means the cablecard-enabled device, which means buying a whole new computer and living with ms vista, which also makes you entirely off-topic for this channel
HarborMasta: nah im getting a non cablecard settop
HarborMasta: all i need is clearqam
HarborMasta: newer tvs have the digital tuner
kcodyjr: then i can't recommend any set top boxes, but that pci card will do. if you've found some other ati chipset device, all i can say is that i've found their products to be superior, for the most part
HarborMasta: yeah
HarborMasta: ati 240
HarborMasta: ill get it, thanks
sytse: mm, tried agd5f's 3d trees, fs corruption was the result
sytse: I guess I'm going to wait for a while ;P
sytse: glxgears did run nicely, at more than 3000 fps
agd5f: sytse: what did you test?
sytse: xcompmgr, among other things
agd5f: sytse: shouldn't be getting fs corruption.
sytse: anyway, it could be any of a huge number of things, all I know is that there was some RAM corruption
sytse: indeed.
sytse: you should NEVER be getting fs corruption ;-)
agd5f: sytse: what chip?
sytse: 3870
sytse: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3870
sytse: Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 022a
sytse: 1002:9501 1043:022a
agd5f: sytse: xcompmgr is 2d only. what it 3d that caused the problem or 2d?
sytse: I suppose it wasn't xcompmgr then
sytse: dunno
sytse: I only ran glxgears and xcompmgr
sytse: anyway, basically, I don't know anything about what happened, except that there was corruption of some RAM buffer
sytse: I was running xdm, wmii, rxvt-unicode, firefox, emacs, mplayer, xcompmgr, glxgears
sytse: oh, wait, and killing xdm I suppose
sytse: (with SIGTERM)
sytse: (I have the very odd problem of an /etc/init.d/xdm that doesn't manage to shut down xdm properly sometimes, gentoo weirdness I suppose)
sytse: oh yeah, also, I'm running an --enable-debug version of mplayer, which somehow DOES work with gcc 4.4.1; it normally crashes (older as well as newer versions)
sytse: I guess I should be feeling unwise for choosing gentoo? ;-)
sytse: (do love being able to just install mesa and xf86-video-radeonhd from git easily though)
twnqx: > mplayer
twnqx: > gcc 4.4.1
twnqx: don't.
twnqx: just don't.
sytse: indeed, I discovered.. but why?
sytse: anyway, I'm going to have trouble downgrading gcc again
sytse: big trouble
sytse: maybe I could somehow set the right environment variables for mplayer only
twnqx: install both >_>
twnqx: what's the prob with that?
sytse: I have both installed.. it's not really easy to compile mplayer with a different version of gcc than the default though
sytse: barring ebuild changes
twnqx: uh
twnqx: use svn mplayer
sytse: I suppose I could change /etc/paludis/bashrc and change some binary and library path env vars
sytse: oh, that I could do.
twnqx: then just gcc-config as you have to update maually anyway P
sytse: that fixes the gcc 4.4.1 problem?
sytse: heh
sytse: nope
twnqx: it's compiler bugs
sytse: when I use svn mplayer, what I do is simply copy over the ebuild and change 2 lines so that it pulls from svn
twnqx: why should those be fixed in mplayer...
sytse: I just misunderstood your meaning of 'svn mplayer'
sytse: you meant, compile it by hand
MostAwesomeDude: There's zero difference between using an ebuild and using autoconf and automake.
twnqx: no
twnqx: i'm using the one from berkano :P
sytse: MostAwesomeDude: reliability
MostAwesomeDude: Your GCC is too new, grab one from a 4.2 slot, switch to it, and then recompile.
MostAwesomeDude: sytse: lolno
MostAwesomeDude: If you think it's an mplayer bug, build and test mplayer according to the official instructions, and if the problem persists, file a bug with them.
MostAwesomeDude: Else, file a bug with Gentoo.
twnqx: is 4.4 even ~?
sytse: you're not as prone to make mistakes, you'll never have the problem 'what did I do here', you'll use the way it's built by default on gentoo, dependencies are checked correctly (no uninstalling of libs on which it is dependent), USE flags are taken in consideration, it's much easier and faster to upgrade to the latest svn HEAD, ... need I go on?
twnqx: last i checked it was [M]
sytse: MostAwesomeDude: indeed.
sytse: MostAwesomeDude: but I don't think so.
sytse: and the appropriate course of action would be to find out as much as I can (by recompiling mplayer with -g and running a stack trace) about what goes wrong, and filing either a bug on gcc with gentoo or with gcc
MostAwesomeDude: sytse: Ever filed a bug against an ebuild, or sent in a patch? :3
sytse: yes
sytse: iirc
MostAwesomeDude: 'k. Just don't go thinking that ebuilds are always perfect, or right.
sytse: I know
sytse: I'm not complaining
sytse: I just said there was a problem with my gcc, that's all.
twnqx: and there is
sytse: yes.
twnqx: it's even in the topic of #mplayer
sytse: ah, nice
twnqx: and btw
sytse: oh, newer than 4.4.1 is good
sytse: nice
twnqx: getting ebuild fixes in
twnqx: is WAY easier than getting patches into mplayer :P
sytse: heh
sytse: or .deb fixes in ;-)
ref_0_: Hello.
ref_0_: Where can I find documentation to configure Radeonhd whit ATI x1250 (integrated)? Specialy xorg.conf options to best performance and TV Out via S-Video to analog TV
chithead: radeonhd does not support tv-out
ref_0_: ok, thanks chithead.
agd5f: ref_0_: it should work with radeon (xf86-video-ati) from git master
ref_0_: agd5f, You know where I can find documentation to configure it? I have git versions from Xorg-Edgers launchpad repository
agd5f: ref_0_: add Option "ATOMTvOut" "TRUE" to the device section of your config
ref_0_:
ref_0_: Is that all? And to switch the display between the CRT and the TV?
woglinde: hm is xrandr working for tvout too?
agd5f: ref_0_, woglinde: yes
agd5f: ref_0_: use xrandr to control the outputs on the fly
woglinde: ref_0_ grandr is a nice frontend
woglinde: but I dont know if it handels tvout well
ref_0_: Ok, thanks. I'll try that then.
ref_0_: Another question. Someone here works for AMD officially?
woglinde: *g*
woglinde: I am not
kcodyjr: make sure i've got the theory straight about that; there are dac's enough to drive all 3 outputs, but only two crtc's, so at least one output would have to be a clone of another, and all that given the full set of register programming is implemented?
yangman: kcodyjr: correct
yangman: ref_0_: agd5f and bridgman
agd5f: kcodyjr: not necessarily
agd5f: kcodyjr: generally there are only two dacs and one is shared for tv and vga
agd5f: but you only have two crtcs so you can only have two sets of independant timing
ref_0_: Please let them know that support for ATI in Linux sucks.
ref_0_: My ATI is 2 years old and has no official Sopore anymore.
ref_0_: I appreciate the work you all who are involved in the project of open source drivers.
MostAwesomeDude: ref_0_: You may have missed the part where the AMD employees are actively working on the open-source drivers.
agd5f: ref_0_: your card is supported by the open source drivers
kcodyjr: ok, that makes sense; the other dac is for dvi-a? and understood, two outputs driven by the same crtc must have the same resolution, including sync timings
agd5f: kcodyjr: yes
kcodyjr: ahh, ref_0_ has a somewhat valid complaint if it says 'linux' on the box; you know i'm grateful for the work you guys have done, but still you can't pick up the phone and get someone to troubleshoot an issue - amd is paying you guys to develop, and quash bugs, not answer trouble tickets
kcodyjr: now, if amd would just suck it up and go all-in on the radeonhd drivers, and make available the same paid support you can get for cad apps with fglrx, then all hats are off
MostAwesomeDude: kcodyjr: Meh.
woglinde: *g*
MostAwesomeDude: AMD supports certain Linux distros, like RHEL.
agd5f: kcodyjr: fglrx still supports the older cards, just not with the latest kernel and xserver
kcodyjr: didn't say it would be an easy business decision
MostAwesomeDude: They don't support *every* distro.
kcodyjr: and i wasn't aware that they'd answer the phone to help fix idiotic problems for paid rhel subscribers, and i will mention it to my boss next time the issue comes up at work
kevin06: fglrx don't support my x1700
kevin06: fglrx sucks
kevin06: amd :(
kcodyjr: be fair. fglrx is not meant for the consumer line, it's meant for the vertex-hungry cad apps, using the firegl line
ref_0_: Either way, I could never have the same performance with OpenSource drivers than with fglrx drivers and Catalyst.
ref_0_: OpenSource drivers do not have a good GUI for the settings.
kcodyjr: honestly the open source drivers don't have many performance controls beyond vast subsystem on/off switches, and that is not unique to radeonhd
kcodyjr: so a gui for "disable exa" would be pretty useless
kevin06: radeonhd with x1700 get artefact on teeworlds and other games
kevin06: just quake 3 work fine
kcodyjr: actually, being able to phone tech support when your fglrx redhat box does something stupid, almost makes the rhel price itself worth paying, depending how well they're actually able to resolve issues
MostAwesomeDude: kcodyjr: Performance controls are only useful if there's a good reason to not have the driver decide for you.
kcodyjr: MostAwesomeDude, no argument. except that having a bunch of buttons labeled "interrupt primary coolant" gives a certain class of user a warm fuzzy. but that doesn't make them a good idea.
kevin06: ati juste good for oOo on linux
kevin06: just*
kcodyjr: "disconnect ground pin" would probably be popular, even if all it did was write a random byte somewhere on the visible screen. also not a good idea. unless that class of user really starts to take up too much time coming in here asking why there's nothing to fiddle with...
kcodyjr: sorry. don't mean to be a jerk. it's just been that kind of life with support issues lately.
ref_0_: Ok people, I'm not the only Linux user disappointed with ATI. You search on the internet the words "ati sucks" + "linux" or "ati" "linux" bug "and you will see. I think people who have nvidia cards is happier than we have ATI.
ref_0_: Also, as I said before, I appreciate your work. Sorry for the delay, "google translator".
ref_0_: Thanks.
MostAwesomeDude: Google "linux matrox sucks", "linux sun sucks", "linux nvidia sucks", "linux intel sucks", etc.
kcodyjr: heck, google for 'sex sucks' and you'll at least get enough to fill a page. which points out two problems; google isn't brilliant about associations, and there's someone to whine about everything. usually many someones.
kcodyjr: note also the only people who bother to sing praises on the internet - beyond monosyllabic grunts of approval - are generally paid to do it.
ref_0_:
ref_0_: ATI appears in the results much more.
ref_0_: Ok, I do not look like a troll. It's just my experience from my previous ATI radeon 9600.
kcodyjr: my 9600 has been solid as hell since 6 months after i bought it. on oss drivers throughout; like my current card, i gave fglrx about a week of my invective before swearing i'd never do that again. it's when ati reengineered something deeply that oss drivers fall behind for awhile.
ref_0_:
ref_0_: Not to mention that ATI could not stand before AIGLX when other brands if they did long ago.
ref_0_: thanks, bye.
ref_0: Yo nuevamente. TV-Out funciona en mi x1250 (RS690). I added Option "ATOMTvOut" "true". But by default login in the TV. How I can do to login by default with the VGA CRT?
ref_0: sorry, english:
ref_0: I again. TV-Out working on my x1250. I added Option "ATOMTvOut" "true" in xorg.conf. But by default login in the TV. How I can do to login by default with the VGA CRT?
chithead: ref_0: http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12
ref_0: thanks "chithead". An aside, we really need a full GUI to configure the OpenSource drivers. grandr, krandr and KDE 4 screen module can help, but don't have a lot of options.
ref_0: Anyway, if you need me to do some testing with my x1250 radeonhd (RS690), I remain at your service
ref_0: Where I can get a list of cards or chipsets that currently support TV Out with radeonhd?
agd5f: ref_0: radeonhd doesn't support tv-out. only radeon does
ref_0:
ref_0: ok, my mistake
chithead: see http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature for what chipset/driver supports which feature
bridgman_: FWIW, "linux ati sucks" has 177,000 hits on Google
bridgman_: "linux nvidia sucks" has 244,000
yangman: facinating