udovdh: http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt mentions 'radeon driver'
udovdh: includes radeonhd?
lazni: I cannot switch to tty, the screen stay lit but black
lazni: I can switch back to X
lazni: this is a laptop with radeon hd 4650
Bobboau: so is anyone alive in here?
Bobboau: so would this be a good time and place to talk about the radeonhd cards and the assosiated open source driver currently in development?
yangman: go for it
Bobboau: I just happen to have such a card and have been trying to get it working well on a kubuntu environment
Bobboau: I've managed to get the hd driver to work with varying degrees of success
Bobboau: though right now if I attempt to use it my system locks up
Bobboau: after a few seconds of the desktop running
Bobboau: visionteck radeon hd 2600
Bobboau: that guy to be specific
yangman: have you opened a bug about it?
Bobboau: no, but the driver is so experimental I didn't know if it was just not working yet
Bobboau: where is the bug tracker though
yangman: it's not that experimental anymore
Temujin_: Bobboau, how did you install the 3D support
Bobboau: basicly I followed the instructions here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonHD
Temujin_: that won't allow 3d on your card yet
Bobboau: what would you suggest?
yangman: Temujin_: lets not go there yet
yangman: Bobboau: are you wanting 3D support?
Bobboau: well, I would like in order of feasability my computer not to lock up when I open a window -> hardware accelerated 2d -> desktop effects -> ability to play games and run 3d apps
yangman: 3D accel on r6xx requires development drm and mesa code
Bobboau: I have a ausu a7n8x delux mobo in case that is interesting
yangman: for 2D accel, latest ubuntu should already support it fine in their packages, so I recommend not compiling your own unless you really want to
kcodyjr: well, this doesn't sound like a 3d speed issue, more like something attempts 3d/whatever and causes a lockup rather than a graceful failure
kcodyjr: could try turning off such capabilities one at a time in xorg.conf
Bobboau: let me describe in detail the lockup issue
kcodyjr: how ya been yangman, you been looking pretty hot on the mailing list lately
yangman: kcodyjr: heh. just minor stuff. I've mostly been working on other projects
kcodyjr: i've mostly been working on my day job
Bobboau: my computer boots up fine, the desktop runs fine, as soon as I click on kickoff or in some other way attempt to open a window the mouse curser starts to move at about 1-3 FPS and I cannot interact with anything, I cannot ctrl-alt Fn to a terminal, but I can connect by ssh and reboot
kcodyjr: when you connect by ssh, is the system load high? unresponsive? or does it really seem to be a local hardware problem?
Bobboau: when I connect via ssh the system seems somewhat slugish
kcodyjr: anything noteworthy appear in "dmesg" after the issue starts?
kcodyjr: and, does your system gracefully return to a text console, if you kill the X server from the ssh session - or does it remain sluggish and borked
Bobboau: if I kill the x server nothing happens, I have to reboot to use the computer normaly
kcodyjr: ok, that still leaves the question of whether the ssh session gets a little more responsive
Bobboau: I don't notice any improvement
kcodyjr: anything showing up in dmesg?
Bobboau: that I don't know, I'll check
yangman: Bobboau: try disabling UploadToScreen. Option "EXANoUploadToScreen" "true" in Device section
lazni: when I switch to tty with radeon, the screen turn off then on, then to tty
lazni: but radeonhd the screen doesn't turn off, it stay lit but black
lazni: quitting X doesn't bring tty back on
lazni: i can still reboot the computer by blindly typing sudo reboot
lazni: this is a laptop with 4650
yangman: lazni: radeonhd version?
lazni: git from yesterday
lazni: alt-f7 brings X to the front again
yangman: can you at least switch back to X without issues?
yangman: file a bug
yangman: if you haven't already
lazni: is my description okay?
yangman: attach a Xorg.0.log as well
lazni: i will file a bug now, and attach the log later when i get home
yangman: make sure the log shows you switching VTs
lazni: so, startx, switch to VT several times, then atach the log?
yangman: just once is fine
lazni: startx -- -logverbose 7?
Bobboau: hey, I'm back, it doesn't seem to want to crash anymore, inspite of going and restoreing xorg.conf to a version I specificly knew it was happening with. maybe hardware overheating?
yangman: heat issues wouldn't be as consistent
yangman: let us know if it happens again
Bobboau: I also notice the hd driver doesn't work with dual head setups, I had gotten the ati driver to work with dual monitors but when I switch to the HD driver I only get the right monitor, is this a limitation of the driver or a bug?
yangman: it should work fine with xrandr
yangman: if there's two monitors plugged int it should default to clone mode, though
Bobboau: this is the xorg.conf I was useing http://pastebin.com/m48abd3b3
Bobboau: though maybe if I swith back it wi'll magicly start working again
yangman: output names are different for radeon and radeonhd
Bobboau: oh... that might be it then
Bobboau: if I just type in xrandr I can get the output names from that right?
yangman: xrandr -q will give you all the output names
yangman: er, yes
yangman: the "/digital" part might not be needed. I don't quite recall
Bobboau: I'll try without
Bobboau: yeah, that didn't make a difference, I'm gona check the xorg log
Bobboau: xrandr is saying I'm hooked up to DVI-I_1/analog not digital, I'm useing CRTs, is this right?
Bobboau: and in xorg's log I get (WW) RADEONHD(0): Option "DVI-I_1/analog" is not used, so that sort of explains why I'm not getting dual head monitors
Bobboau: that shows up if I drop the '/analog' part (without /analog of course) also
yangman: you still need the "monitor-" prefix
Bobboau: ah, that was it alright :)
kcodyjr: by the way yangman, i do still want to try some of that advanced colorspace stuff we were talking about back in feb... just that, for now, it seems like a fool's errand without proper MM
Bobboau: now if I can just figure out why I can't get OpenGL compositing to work, I'll be happy.
kcodyjr: um, probably because opengl requires working 3d?
Bobboau: that could be why, how can I get 3d working? or is it at all opssible yet?
kcodyjr: not supported yet. it's in the works, so i hear.
Bobboau: is there and ballpark eta?
kcodyjr: i wouldn't know
yangman: most of it already works. not sure when it'll get a release
kcodyjr: translation: it's done when it's done. there is no formal project management going on here.
yangman: 3D is handled by mesa
yangman: it also requires additions to the kernel
Bobboau: yeah, I get that but sometimes groups have a rough idea how much longer it will take them to get to the next point
yangman: r6xx support for mesa is in master currently. drm changes would be 2.6.32 at the earliest
Bobboau: I'm already useing 2.6.30
Bobboau: so some time after the karmic release then
Bobboau: oh, hey, goody, I rebooted and it locks up again
kcodyjr: this is weird. it's like cause and effect have changed places.
kcodyjr: usually, it locks up, and then you reboot.
Bobboau: so if I boot up with ati and I switch to radeonhd its fine, but if I boot with radeonhd it locks up as soon as I try to do anything
kcodyjr: wait a minute.
kcodyjr: stop right there.
kcodyjr: the universe exists at the moment of cold bootup
kcodyjr: and there is only room for one device driver in the universe
kcodyjr: if you're going to run radeonhd, boot into it. if you're going to run ati, boot into it.
kcodyjr: do not boot with one, unload it, and load the other. both are incompatibly inconsistent with how they leave the hardware.
Bobboau: makes seance
kcodyjr: so the fact that you're getting better behavior by doing it wrong, suggests a possible real bug, something not getting initialized on your particular hardware.
kcodyjr: however, you're running release versions, so likely that bug has been found and fixed and is in git.
kcodyjr: but getting a fix "now" means diving into development code, and that is not a step to be taken lightly.
Bobboau: I don't have a whole lot invested in this computer so if worse comes to worse I'll just reinstall
kcodyjr: i have zero experience with running devel code on ubuntu
Bobboau: you asked about dmesg, I get a whole lot of [drm] wait idle failed status : 0xA0003030 0x00000003
Bobboau: if that means anything
kcodyjr: something stuck in a loop, probably the cp on the card
kcodyjr: tells me the version of the driver you've got isn't quite ready.
kcodyjr: you've got two choices, try the devel code, or use another driver. "radeon" isn't likely to be better, which leaves you with ati
airlied: assumed ati was radeon
airlied: not fglrx
Bobboau: dev code sound dagerous and fun
kcodyjr: ok, at least you've got no illusions.
kcodyjr: good point airlied
Bobboau: I did try fglrx a when I fist started pokeing this issue, it is quite dead at this time before you ask, or at least it better be...
kcodyjr: officially, ati supports these cards under linux with their fglrx driver. unofficially, they suck except for CAD on cad-centric hardware, you're usually better off with whatever broken open driver you can find.
kcodyjr: oh it ain't dead
kcodyjr: it just ain't meant for desktops
kcodyjr: come to think of it, there's a firegl z1 agp sitting near my desk at the office. i should maybe try and see if fglrx works well on fgl hardware...
Bobboau: I meant I purged it from my system after watching it fail spectacularly
kcodyjr: i watched fglrx crash my monitor
Bobboau: oh, that's what fgl stands for
kcodyjr: you heard me. it f'ked up the monitor state somehow and i had to powercycle it.
Bobboau: I think it might have done that to me too now that I think about it
Bobboau: both monitors whent dead and had an odd error message on them, I forget what it was
kcodyjr: still; the fgl driver is said to have huge performance advantages when you're actually doing 3d modelling and fast/rich texturing and shading and crap isn't such an issue
Bobboau: and have FireGL hardware
kcodyjr: right. and have firegl hardware.
Bobboau: it helps to be useing the hardware a driver was meant for
kcodyjr: and the fglrx driver is meant for commercial customers with the industrial-tuned boards
kcodyjr: that said, i betcha such a board would -RULE- for 2D and video, with a proper driver
Bobboau: no doubt
kcodyjr: since 3d modelling is about vast lists of vertices, which in turn makes the hardware want to optimize for memory bandwidth
Bobboau: this thing takes a while to reboot, but I guess I should be glad it reboots at all
kcodyjr: wouldn't kill you to power it down entirely
Bobboau: I guess I could give that a shot
kcodyjr: it's not a fix, it's a safety. so long as power remains, state can persist, if you assume a buggy bios, which is a good assumption
kcodyjr: speaking of buggy bios'es. i read in the radeonhd sources somewhere that there's an issue with getting the video bios out of secondary cards? could someone point me to where i can read about that?
Bobboau: wow, I managed to turn it off with the gui without it locking up
Bobboau: now it's not locking up again
Bobboau: debugging is a fun time when the system not locking up is frusterateing
Bobboau: OH! there it goes, locked up again, I just had to do stuff for a while
Bobboau: is there a way to query the temperature monitor which I'm wildly assuming exsists on the video card?
kcodyjr: use finger. risk burn.
kcodyjr: yes, it is entirely possible an open source driver is failing to kick the fan speed up. if the card needs such things. i'm not sure.
Bobboau: it feels a little on the warm side but it isn't painfull...
Bobboau: at least the part I can get my hand to
yangman: KDE right? tried turning off compositing?
Bobboau: yeah, kde, no, I haven't tried that
kcodyjr: don't try to be feature greedy with a dated driver.
kcodyjr: in fact, turn off as much as you can stand turning off.
Bobboau: though one of my issues is I wanted to get compositing to work, but I guess we have established it's going to be some time before I get that
yangman: does it work correctly under radeon?
Bobboau: a little bit, sorta, I think, no I guess not
Bobboau: I can get transparency and zooming, but most of the special effect just flaT OUT DON'T WORK
yangman: does it freeze under radeon?
yangman: (that's what I meant by work)
Bobboau: no, I don't think it has
yangman: ok. file a bug so this doesn't get lost
Bobboau: I just disabled desktop effects and it froze up on me again, unless there was another way to turn off compositing
kcodyjr: actually you probably triggered some of the compositing code. you'll need to turn things off by editing xorg.conf
Bobboau: oh, yeah, I could do that
Bobboau: Extensions -> Composite -> off ?
Bobboau: ok, everything looks uglier (compositing off) and, yeah, it just locked up on me.
yangman: Bobboau: turn off EXA composite in xorg.conf
yangman: Option "EXANoComposite" "true"
Bobboau: which section does that go in, device?
Bobboau: nope, locked up again
Bobboau: and the window I was moveing when it happened is slightly misdrawn
yangman: can you pastebin your Xorg.0.log?
Bobboau: sure, just give me a sec
Bobboau: I put my conf at the top of it too
yangman: hm. might be an AGP quirk that's not accounted for
yangman: I really have no idea
Bobboau: well, I guess I'll file a bug report