udovdh: Anybody home?
rmh3093: glisse, are you still on schedule for making a r500 modesetting push this week?
glisse: rmh3093: there was a schedule ?
rmh3093: idk you said you might push something this week
rmh3093: so i wanted to know if you were still on pace to do that
glisse: well there is other stuff on schedule
glisse: but definitly no modesetting for r500
glisse: i just gived it a look today and cleaning up atombios code is pain and cumberstone
rmh3093: i see
rmh3093: i'm looking forward to the day where I can get native lcd resolution for console
glisse: rmh3093: when that day happen you will muc more than that...
libv: udovdh: somebody is home now :)
udovdh: anything nice for you this weekend?
udovdh: or just business (as usual?)
libv: nothing nice for me this weekend :(
libv: i'm at the office since i'm without electricity at home
udovdh: how come?
udovdh: a) a balloon?
udovdh: b) a blackhawk?
udovdh: c) ?
libv: well, my landlady owes them 41EUR for the time when my appartment was being redone, before i moved in
libv: they failed to contact her as my name is on the mailbox of the address they've been sending letters to
libv: and so they decided to cut my electricity last tuesday, when i was at the suse prague office
udovdh: not nice
libv: i come back on 0.30 fridaynight... no electricity, nothing in the mailbox, nothing under the door
udovdh: so it'll take at least until wednesday for electricity to be restored?
udovdh: (assuming your ups is empty and you ont have a olpc laptop)
libv: eventually emmes called an emergency electrician, who screwed open the main fusebox, said "i am not allowed to touch that, you've been locked out, that'd be 110EUR please"
libv: and they cannot send anybody round until tuesday morning
libv: well, n-ergie that is
udovdh: 110 euro for just comign around a customers house?
udovdh: i'd call that a ripoff.
libv: yeah, well, saturday morning at 1.00
udovdh: why do it at that time?
libv: because that's when i got home
udovdh: sleep and see in the morning
libv: and noticed that i had no electricity
udovdh: it is the landlady's responsibility I guess
udovdh: so next morning ask her to fix the stuff
udovdh: and find a hotspot with electricity ;-)
libv: well, it is partially my fault, i always assumed electricity was part of the 150EUR i paid on top of my rent
libv: but that included everything (even water and heating) except electricity
udovdh: and that was written somewhere?
libv: yeah, the lease
libv: which is in german
udovdh: and you have a separate meter
udovdh: kein Problem!
libv: now it is no problem, but i never had any warning that could have me rethink my assumption
udovdh: yeah yeah...
udovdh: oh well
udovdh: you learn along the way
udovdh: how is the battery life of your laptops?
libv: this is what happens when electricity companies are almost monopolists
libv: well, only one has a useful OS installed
udovdh: over here you can switch, as they say
libv: the rest is just testmachines
udovdh: but I'd like to go for independence in some (minor) form
udovdh: if I had the cash
libv: my mailaggregator has been down for a week
udovdh: hmmm not good
libv: i have tons of mailinglists coming onto firstname.lastname@example.org
libv: my freezer is starting to smell
udovdh: maybe ask the neighbor for a powerfeed?
libv: my fridge is ok, as i had made sure anything that couldn't hold out until i returned was finished or thrown away
libv: yeah, i probably should, so that i at least can run a few pcs
libv: but the office is just 1.1kms away, and this forces me to do some more radeonhd work :)
libv: it's really awkward having no electricity
libv: and thank god for cellphones
libv: i am lucky that my waterheating is done buildingwise
libv: so i can still shower at home, in the weak light of a ledlamp
udovdh: it helps for showers and such yes
udovdh: no window...
libv: but i can no longer have caffeine in a drinkable form in the morning
udovdh: get a coke
libv: no, no window in my bathroom
udovdh: maybe take a day off tomorrow
libv: no the same, very weak compared to what i drink, and too much sugar
udovdh: and enjoy the weather for a bit?
libv: tomorrow is a day off :)
libv: it's a public holiday
udovdh: yes, but it might vary for a you
libv: otherwise i could've had electricity back again tomorrow :p
udovdh: 5th of may is public holiday too over here
udovdh: but I had a course to attend
libv: ah, ouch
udovdh: they just don't want to work
udovdh: not bad: oracle 10g
libv: so you were forced to go out when everybody was still in bad
udovdh: some introductionary workshop
libv: urgh, dbs
udovdh: that's not a problem for me
udovdh: I like to get up early
udovdh: avoid traffic
udovdh: be hoem early
udovdh: even today
libv: right, you said so before, makes sense indeed
udovdh: was in bed around 12
udovdh: left this mornign at 6:20 or so
udovdh: for cycling
libv: how many kms did you do?
dmb: libv: working on weekends now :D?
udovdh: just a distance to use the muscles and not get real `empty`
udovdh: without a break or similar
libv: i did 62 today, towards the airstrip where i am gliding and back... there's about 300m of elevation difference between there and nurnberg
libv: yeah, 30 is a comfortable distance indeed
udovdh: did you do that with 20 km average or better?
libv: the climbs really take the speed out
udovdh: I am doing 21.5 or so over 100 kms
udovdh: and taht is on mainly flat land with an m5 28/20
libv: but on the way back i can bring the average up again from 19something
udovdh: need to ride a bit more
udovdh: I installed shorter cranks to ride abit more efficiently
libv: yeah, over 100kms the speed drops significantly indeed, there 21.5 is very good
udovdh: and now I might need to make the chain abit longer (or just replace it) to give my legs the room they need
udovdh: 100 km total, not in one go
udovdh: just pieces of 20-30 kms together
udovdh: from starting the cycling season here
libv: well, yeah, when you do 100kms you stop a bit in between and have a drink, maybe something to eat
udovdh: yes, but then again it's a lot when you're almost untrained like me
udovdh: and skinny & proud etc
udovdh: 60 or so in one go is my max I guess. 3 hours straight, small break
libv: 100km is the point where endurance no longer matters
udovdh: I guess so.
libv: but where your arms start to hurt and where your rear end is screaming murder and carnage
udovdh: then you need a different bike:
libv: climbing up a hill then is only problematic because you shift your position and the bit that has the pain numbed out is touching the saddle differently :)
udovdh: like that one
libv: oh, i used to live in gent, there was a shop of ligfiets.be there
libv: it's where my brother bought his brompton (foldable)
libv: i have always had a bit of a week spot for a challenge hurricane
libv: m5 is also a recumbent?
udovdh: dutch brand
udovdh: meer meters met minder moeite
libv: about that hurricane, i've always wanted one, never got one, but out here a recumbent makes no sense anymore :)
udovdh: that's a better pic
udovdh: why not?
libv: so now my bicycle has schwalbe hurricane tires ;p
udovdh: too small a distance to work?
libv: for steep climbs you need to put your weight forward
udovdh: use it for private time rides
libv: and there's tons of climbs here
udovdh: just shift down and increase the cadence
udovdh: and keep the balance
libv: ok... so it would still make sense?
udovdh: it might
udovdh: depending on your body, the landscape etc
libv: how good is a recumbent with appropriate tires on unpaved roads?
libv: the landscape here is very hilly
udovdh: you can put on any tires you want
udovdh: unpaved stuff is better for a normal bike i guess
libv: 200m climbs, where you need to use the smallest gears all the time are not unusual
libv: 200m height difference that is
udovdh: I understand
udovdh: hmmm just try one for a few days
libv: i can rent one from the ligfiets.be shop, but i would have to take it to the ardennes to be able to find out whether it makes sense there
udovdh: if you can, just do it
udovdh: or find someone closer that you cna borrow a bike from
libv: i've seen the whole total of one recumbent in the 10.5 months i've been here
libv: while i saw them every day in gent
udovdh: that is more than here
udovdh: I am the only one I see in my neighborhood
libv: so borrowing them is not really an option :)
udovdh: seldom see one while I take my lunchbreak at work
udovdh: maybe check ligfiets.net
udovdh: or the ligfiets mailinglist at google
libv: hehe, challenge still has the same models as 4y ago :)
libv: good things last apparently :)
libv: ooh... challenge hurricane can come with maguras
libv: but they sell the idiotic SON hub dynamo's
libv: they are horrendously overpriced
udovdh: why need a dynamo?
libv: this is what i once thought too
udovdh: if you don't drive in the dark
udovdh: else you can use batteries
libv: but my whole 62km drive today was done with the lights on
libv: hub dynamoes are so good these days
udovdh: my 28/20 has no light
libv: they draw about 5watts of power when on and generate 3watts of electricity
libv: and that'S the ultra-cheap shimano ones
udovdh: 5 watts?!
libv: you just don't feel them
udovdh: that's 2% of a well trained person
udovdh: so more from me
libv: what is 5watts when you're usually generating multiple hundreds
udovdh: don't think so
udovdh: m5 specs theire bikes at 250W input
libv: 5watts you just don't feel
libv: when you turn them off they still waste 1-1.5W
libv: and you cannot tell the 3.5-4Watt difference
libv: you really cannot tell
udovdh: see the graphs at the bottom
udovdh: 250W is quite some effort
udovdh: perhaps not the top for some but still not unnoticed
udovdh: so then 5W is getting significant
xAFFE: uh, my father is building such bikes :)
libv: udovdh: hrm... my eurocent just dropped
libv: udovdh: there is a recumbent shop where i live here now... cycle past it most of the time
xAFFE: udovdh: he said he wanted to produce them for 1k-1,5k €
libv: not that i see many people riding recumbents (as said, only one so far)
libv: but i can rent one there for a bit, that i know
xAFFE: he has no pics of it yet, but some of his older bikes can be seen here: http://www.soonw.de/
udovdh: http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/Models/Carbon_High_Racer is oen that I'd want to try one day
marcheu: that's more expensive than my (2nd hand) car
udovdh: yes, but Carbon and slightly high-tec as far as abike can be
udovdh: my 28/20 was second hand and only 500 euro
libv: marcheu: french cars devaluate quickly ;ppp
marcheu: libv: miss, mine's a VW :)
udovdh: xAFFE, interesting site
libv: marcheu: we went to prague last week in a rental car, and all we were allowed to take there was french and the less interesting japanese brands :)
udovdh: not even a simple opel corsa?
libv: and this is a country that just joined shengen
libv: and will join the euro in a year and a half or so
marcheu: hey what did you do up there ? vacation ?
udovdh: schengen is only a temporary measure
libv: marcheu: conference in the suse office there
udovdh: until terrorism returns
libv: udovdh: ;p
udovdh: with a big EU
tulcod: udovdh: "returns"?
udovdh: and schengen only trouble comes
libv: eu will never be very threatening
udovdh: not that I want border checks
marcheu: tulcod: he probably means the fear returns...
udovdh: but it is becoming a fact
tulcod: marcheu: i hope so...
udovdh: there is no terrism
libv: when faced with a challenge, EU countries just turn on eachother and start bickering
udovdh: only the fear
tulcod: terrorism exists because people are afraid for it
tulcod: that's it
udovdh: cars kill more people than terrorists do in this country
udovdh: and terrism is abused for everything
tulcod: udovdh: well that's not exactly an argument imo
udovdh: more priority towards safer cars/roads/people
tulcod: udovdh: agreed
udovdh: than to fighting terrorism with stupid measures
tulcod: but that's not what we were talking bout
udovdh: why the car policy btw?
tulcod: udovdh: well i had to get rid of your argument
tulcod: i don't care sh*t about what laws tell people about car safety and such
tulcod: they just pay for their own damage
tulcod: à la germany
udovdh: I make a mistake and hit your car
udovdh: yours is a total loss
tulcod: udovdh: then you pay
udovdh: mine is hummer and has minor damage
libv: ok... how did we get from electricity getting cut to terrorism to car talk :p
udovdh: oh, I was wondering
tulcod: udovdh: "their own" meaning "caused by hteir own"
udovdh: ah, ok, I see
udovdh: haha libv
libv: udovdh: are hummers even able to handle autobahn speeds?
tulcod: libv: now, ask yourself hte following: do you *really* want to know?
udovdh: over here hummers are strange case
libv: tulcod: i was there, suffering through it :p
udovdh: because they are heavy
udovdh: 3.x tons?
tulcod: udovdh: well
tulcod: you see them sometimes
udovdh: and almost exceeding the max weight for a person car (pkw)
tulcod: but yeah, not as frequent as... other conutrsie :p
tulcod: i'll just assume you guys can fill in that last word :p
udovdh: so, although the max load they can carry is higher, they are permitted for a normal license driver with a lower load to remain under 3.5 tons
udovdh: and with a big engine they still accellerate quite OK
tulcod: udovdh: please note, however, that the "lower load" is not temporary
udovdh: and they are in the same traffic jam as my corse taht costs a factor 10 less
udovdh: I know
udovdh: until your drivers license improves
tulcod: that's not a direct effect
tulcod: but yeh
udovdh: and the car is re-checked
tulcod: but yes
udovdh: and given a different permit
udovdh: you need a truck-drivers license to enjoy the full benefit of a hummer
libv: let's see if i can find Top Gears Jeremy Clarkson driving the then best selling american truck through an english village
udovdh: hmm. I think hummers are a bit asocial, obscene, etc
tulcod: so yeh, i wanna build a plane, any ideas for engines? i have: lawn mowers, scooter bike engines... any suggestions?
udovdh: what size, purpose?
tulcod: udovdh: between a one-person normal one and VLA
tulcod: udovdh: tiny little bit of aerobatics, but just cheap & simple & small
tulcod: no, jet engines are no option
udovdh: a small diesel?
tulcod: udovdh: like?
udovdh: saw some one time
udovdh: there are airborne certified diesels
udovdh: but might be too big for your purpose
lupine_85: udovdh: do what the wright brothers did
tulcod: udovdh: to get an idea: two lawn mowers might be plenty
tulcod: udovdh: car engine is way too big
lupine_85: erm, tulcod
tulcod: lupine_85: scooter bike ish engine right?
udovdh: 20 pk?
tulcod: udovdh: yeah, approximately, but that's hard to say
tulcod: prolly more
udovdh: more? for an ulv?
tulcod: udovdh: pretty much
tulcod: udovdh: but it's gonna be heavier than a ULV
tulcod: udovdh: dunno how heavy though :p
udovdh: just make it sturdy, which does not always imply heavy
tulcod: udovdh: 2 times needed for ULV is enough
udovdh: try to use the lightweight materials
tulcod: aluminium, i was thinking...
udovdh: any pictures, drawings?
tulcod: udovdh: lol, not yet
tulcod: udovdh: but... google for cricri
tulcod: that's about what i have in mind
udovdh: gotta go I guess
tulcod: oh, cya then
tulcod: thx for your thoughts :)
udovdh: would love to see some concepts to grasp the idea
oninoshiko: tulcod: ive heard some people useing engines from mazda's RX-7s and RX-8s for planes. (I know you said car engines are too big, but the wankle is a bit of a differenct beast
tulcod: oninoshiko: hm, interesting
tulcod: oninoshiko: but yeah, that's just way too big :)
tulcod: interesting engine though
tulcod: lol @ the pistons
tulcod: how the heck did they invent that :p
tulcod: "hey guys, let's combine a triangle and some kind of roundish shape to get a rotary piston engine"
oninoshiko: funny, i wonder the same thing about the complexity of the recipricating engine ;p
tulcod: oninoshiko: well, that type of engine's design is not very... unuusal
tulcod: oninoshiko: i mean, it was clear that gas could explode and expand
tulcod: oninoshiko: they knew they could get movement out of it in a certain way
tulcod: oninoshiko: only thing to be added was some rotation
tulcod: oninoshiko: which was added in an obvious way imo
tulcod: just my $0.02
oninoshiko: tulcod: but you have to have all the complexity of manageing the intake and outtake valves
tulcod: oninoshiko: yes
tulcod: oninoshiko: its design is very bad for performance, but it's modular too
tulcod: oninoshiko: you could theoretically use electrical motors for the valves
tulcod: oninoshiko: and you don't need to specifically rotate something
tulcod: the explosions can simply move up and down too
oninoshiko: it just seems somewhat rube-goldburgish by compairson
tulcod: oninoshiko: agreed
tulcod: oninoshiko: but that doesn't really have anything to do with the complexity of the design, does it?
tulcod: it's not complex
tulcod: it simply has many parts
tulcod: windows is complex
tulcod: gnu/linux is less
tulcod: it simply has a lot of parts
tulcod: whoops, i just started a flamewar :p
oninoshiko: shall i skip to some WWII refernce so it can be ended?
tulcod: oninoshiko: go ahead
oninoshiko: there... all done
dmb: michaellarabel: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/11/1736250&from=rss :D
michaellarabel: Yep, seen it. Thanks
libv: this via fb driver is not very different from the fb driver they've been providing for years
libv: 90% of the changes is s/MIT/GPL/ and adjusting style to the kernel style
airlied: libv: yeah no surprise there :-)
airlied: libv: I'm waiting for them to release uni/open-chrome with all the copyrights ripped off.
libv: nah, they have partial source for their binaries available
libv: leaving out the rarer tv encoders and all the tv decoder support
libv: so i guess they just put this up on their site and then state it's all new
libv: maybe even while still including the binaries they have for mpeg decoding and mesa
libv: i hope they did make some changes and include a proprietary license :)