agd5f: we have a bios table card post kit for x86/non-x86 platforms I'm working to get released. probably soon after we get 3D out the door.
soc: someting new?
Guillaume_: i don't think
soc: ah ok
soc: any new things from amd?
Guillaume_: about this, i don't know :/
soc: ah ok ...
soc: libv: what are you working on atm?
soc: looks quite curious
soc: looking back, i really have to say radeonhd is the ost stable ati driver ever ...
soc: the code from git is more stable than avivos releases or the so-called 'fglrx releases'
soc: or did anyone experience anyone troubles with rhd?
libv: soc: there's plenty of bugs open atm :)
soc: guess i'm just lucky then :-)
soc: libv: do you have a bugtracker?
soc: opengl is delayed again .....
soc: i just wonder what's the problem ...
soc: better said if the 'several issues' are technical or political issues ...
paran: are there support for the new HD3650 cards in radeonhd? I can't find anything in the wiki
libv: paran: working on it
libv: paran: there were a lot of changes to the hardware between rv670 and rv620/635
libv: paran: but this week at least DACs should be working fine
egbert: we don't have full docs for all the blocks yet either.
egbert: DAC == analog output.
egbert: the digital block has changed almost entirely due to display port support. even for non dp outputs.
soc: what is displayport about?
soc: enabling high-resolution modes with vesa?
paran: libv: ok, sounds promising. how soon would you guess dvi-d output could work?
soc: so people won't get crappy 800*640 resolutions, if the driver doesn't support a card?
soc: or is there more than that?
soc: displayport is more about technical things working better/easier and hdmi more about media/copy protection?
egbert: display port is a vesa standard. it is expected to be the next generation digital connector.
egbert: soc: i don't know so much about copy protection. it's mostly higher resolutions over longer distances.
libv: soc: displayport is the direct competitor of dvi
soc: ah ok
soc: libv: do you have any opinion about it? (beside the additional work)?
egbert: no one knows if it will be accepted.
libv: soc: there's no hardware yet :)
soc: hasn't ati released a gpu lately?
egbert: currently dvi is the standard that needs to be supported by hw and sw alike as it is most widespread.
egbert: soc: yes.
libv: soc: only one dell screen which will be almost impossible to get hold of and which will probably not really meet the standard
soc: is displayport better than dvi?
egbert: we neiother have a card nor a display.
soc: or just different?
libv: soc: you'll probably see more cards with two dvi than with one dvi and one displayport :)
egbert: the problem with dvi support currently, due to display port the digital block has been redesigned. so dvi support also needs toe be handled differently.
egbert: ... even when using atombios as there are different command tables involved.
marcheu: yeah I was going to ask just that, seems weird that you need different atom bios handling
soc: crouches behind my desk ...
soc: i guess the first use case where not relying on the atombios too much has been proven right :-P
egbert: marcheu: oh, a lot of stuff has been added to support both display port and other digital outputs thru the same interfaces.
soc: uh ... one dvi and one vga!
soc: i'm using vga atm ...
soc: are there visual differences between dvi and vga?
egbert: soc: yes. definitely.
soc: uh really?
soc: what are the differences?
egbert: soc: also the monitor doesn't have to do phase adjustments.
soc: because on my 22" display some colors are ...
soc: can't describe it ...
soc: like on old crts with too low refresh rates ...
soc: but just some colors ...
egbert: soc: exactly. on analog you have to map signal levels to pixels. on digital you transmit a data packet for each pixel.
soc: the phoronix.com-grey is bad for instance ...
soc: in german you would describe the color-appearnace as "unruhig"
soc: maybe libv can help with a decent translation ...
egbert: soc: 'noisy'?
soc: ouch .... my display only has vga!
egbert: soc: a panel?
soc: yes, .... ruhig means 'still', 'not moving', un is the negation ...
soc: will it help to use the gpus dvi-out an use a dvi-vga-connector?
egbert: soc: i think the best translation of 'unruhig' would be 'noisy'.
soc: or won't that change the visual quality?
egbert: soc: no, not really.
egbert: unless you have a digital input.
soc: i never really cared much when i bought the display some omths ago ...
egbert: you may even get more distortions due to the adaptor.
soc: guess i better had :-(
egbert: soc: what model?
soc: belinea 22 artistline ...
soc: i guess "artist" meant "poor" in this regard ...
egbert: soc: yeah, most artists are quite poor :p
soc: exactly ... guess belineas marketing group had the same idea ...
soc: i could just cry and throw that thing out of my window ...
soc: but that won't improvethe visual quality :-(
soc: maybe i can sell it to my father and buy a new one ...
egbert: soc: you may have a plan there :p
soc: but he's refusing to get anything else than his old 15" display ...
soc: his last innovation was a wireless keyboard and mouse, so i guess it will take 2-3 years until he will try something new :-)
soc: especially after this "change battery after a week" disaster ...
egbert: soc: exactly, this is one reason why i don't get those wireless toys.
soc: me too
egbert: the other one is: i would have no way of locating the device on my desk any more.
egbert: with a cord you at least can find one end :p
soc: was on a lan this weekend ...
soc: people where quite creative how to connect pcs to each ...
soc: brougth two 24-port-switches from cisco ...
ilm: you got that with crap wireless mouse. decent ones work > 6 month with one AA
soc: somehow these two switches didn't wanted to connect to ech other :-)
soc: solution: buying 20 lan-cables (20 meter long)
egbert: soc: both cisco - or one cisco and one non-cisco?
soc: time-frame: met at 15 o'clock, started age of empires at 22 0'clock
soc: both cisco ... same models --
soc: maybe they should have been connected with a patchcable and not a crossover ...
soc: but i thought this hgh-price devices could handle that ...
egbert: soc: possibly.
egbert: soc: well, maybe they were smart - just applied a different logic.
soc: but after 7 hours running around and searching for lan cables troughout the house and calling relatives and so on we started playing :-)
soc: age of empires 2 - conquerors expansion: 3 vs. 5 match ... we won :-P
soc: we are looking desperately for a new strategy game ... but until now aoe is the best game ever ...
libv: soc: unruhig... jittery?
soc: does someone can suggest a good strategy game? :-P
soc: libv: yes, i think that hits the nail ...
soc: someone here playing aoe? :-P
soc: and can someone suggest a decent 22" display?
soc: Belinea o.display 2.1 22" Widescreen TFT
soc: LG Electronics Flatron L225WS-SF
soc: what do you think?
soc: no, damn ... the LG has only vga, too
egbert: soc: maybe you want to check some test reports. ct magazin usually does fairly decent tests.
soc: mh yes ... they did recently but not on my price level afair ..
soc: egbert: could it be that the jittery colors are due to the fact that the display runs only at 60hz at 1680*1050?
soc: lower resolutions run on 75 hz
soc: or is that just a technical limitation?
egbert: no, low frequencies should not be a problem on panels.
egbert: besides i've looked up your panel. it doesn't seem to allow higher rates at this resolution anyhow.
egbert: soc: did you go to the osd menue and did the 'auto adjust'? this often helps on analog input.
egbert: in fact i debugged for several hours when this made the problem go away. stupid me :(
soc: yes, ... other displays do that too ... so could the 60hz be a bandwidth limitation?
soc: ok,i'll try
egbert: soc: for this frequency, definitely.
egbert: soc: s/frequency/resolution/
soc: no, didin't help ...
egbert: hrm, ok.
soc: guess i'll have to look for a new display ...
soc: should i just buy one with dvi or are there differences?
soc: or should i wait and buy one with displayport?
egbert: soc: i probably would not wait.
egbert: it will be too long until they become available in an affordable price range.
soc: ok ...
egbert: by that time you may be looking for the next one already.
soc: does this one look decent?
pechanoSAURUZ: read some tests
soc: looks like they made some mistake :-P
soc: btw, if i buy cable, should i better buy cat5e s-ftp or cat6 utp?
soc: they are the same price ...
libv: 6 has a higher amount of twists, so it is the better choice
xAFFE: soc: depends on your environment, if you have no large electric interferences you could go with utp
soc: ah ok
soc: sorry, pidgin crashed :-(
egbert: soc. libv: the higher number of twists would be to compensate for shorter wavelength at higher frequencies. as cat 6 is used for 10gbase-t
xAFFE: egbert: if the cable is going next to a big powerconsumer it should be shielded, anything else will result in funny packets, btst.
egbert: xAFFE: right. oddly in some environments shiedling can be counter productive. if you don't have a separate ground you will have a currrent running over your shielding. however those environments are not really suitable for networking anyhow.
udovdh: sooo back home nad online etc
udovdh: found out that I have to force hpet on my VIA boards
udovdh: but it works
fosco: is it possible de define a default resolution? ((WW) RADEONHD(0): Option "PreferredMode" is not used and the default resolution is not the maximum of the monitor)
libv: fosco: maybe a Modes directive helps
mstrobert: By the end of the year, will r5xx or r6xx cards work better with radeonhd, or will they perform equally well?
fosco: I read it's not needed anymore in 7.3
fosco: and hmm, the modeline is defined
libv: mstrobert: compared to fglrx?
fosco: Modeline "1280x1024_60.00" 108.88 1280 1360 1496 1712 1024 1025 1028 1060 -HSync +Vsync
libv: mstrobert: we will never attain the raw fps of fglrx
fosco: Option "PreferredMode" "1280x1024_60.00"
gusta1: fosco: preferred mode doesn't work
fosco: just, it got this error "'PreferredMode" is not used'
libv: mstrobert: we will be fully free, and we will hopefully be dependable
fosco: gusta1: ok...
fosco: it's the default method starting with xorg 7.3/xrandr 1.2
gusta1: fosco: you'll have to change this manually with xrandr every time you start X.. I know, it sucks a lamas ass
fosco: that's pretty fucking lame
fosco: but ok, this will take one minute :)
gusta1: I created a run-icon on my gnome panel which runs xrandr with the proper parameters
mstrobert: libv: not compared to fglrx, but the r5xx and r6xx compared to each other. I need to buy several video cards for some workstations and it's important that they Just Work on Ubuntu with Compiz (and with the radeonhd driver). And I'm wondering if either of r5xx or r6xx would be a better choice for Just Working.
gusta1: so I just click it at login
airlied: mstrobert: compiz doesn't work yet.
libv: mstrobert: r5xx and r6xx are fundamentally different 3d engines
libv: mstrobert: it is too early to say where we will end up with r6xx
fosco: just added 'xrandr --output VGA_1 --mode 1280x1024' in /etc/gdm/Init/Default (for example)
fosco: but it's evil
gusta1: yes, it's disgusting, fosco
mstrobert: libv: So if I buy r5xx, then radeonhd would support our cards sooner than if I bought r6xx? I want to drive dual LCDs at 1680x1050 running Compiz on Ubuntu, and I don't want to deal with encumbered/proprietary drivers any more. I understand that we may have to wait a few more months for the radeonhd to support our cards, and that's fine.
fosco: thank you btw, at least I dit not spend hours trying where I can fix something that is "normal" :)
gusta1: mstrobert: compiz still doesn't work
gusta1: it's only been 5 minutes since airlied said that ;)
mstrobert: gusta1 airlied: Right, but in the next few months?
gusta1: everything depends on AMD
libv: mstrobert: we have not enough datapoints to say whether r6xx is going to perform better than r5xx
gusta1: but sure, according to AMD, they are "going to" release more specs/docs/code stuff..
libv: mstrobert: we can only hope so, but we cannot make hard claims
airlied: r500 3D will happen befreo r600 3D..
airlied: the distance beetween those points cannot be measured..
airlied: the distance to those points same story..
gusta1: r500 3D WILL work?
mstrobert: libv: ok. I'm hoping to postpone the purchase until the end of 1Q for other reasons, so maybe by then AMD will publish some more documents that make it more clear.
libv: gusta1: both will work, at some point in the future
gusta1: to be able to claim such a thing, I can safely assume you've got all the docs you need?
libv: gusta1: whether it will satisfy all users wants and wishes is something else :)
fosco: mstrobert: maybe you can buy cards based on another chipset that "just work"? (like R480)
gusta1: well, I'm not talking about mesa...
libv: gusta1: all, no, some yes, and hopefully more will follow
Tigerchen: libv: have you had the possibility to test my whiteouts?
gusta1: personally (and as probably most users) I care not even remotely about superspeed and game benchmark catch-up, but just XVideo and "google earth"-kindof apps
mstrobert: fosco: Hm, I guess I haven't looked much at cards before r5xx. I'll look into that. Would those Just Work with open-source drivers and Compiz?
libv: Tigerchen: ah, yes, i had the chance, but i'm currently digging out the dpms working on the wrong DISPLAY issue which is bothering several of our users
libv: Tigerchen: i have the laptop right next to me, all booted up, and ready to test this, but i'm currently poking at the other device :)
Tigerchen: libv: ok, np with that, since this behaviour is not a real problem to me
fosco: mstrobert: I have a X850XT on a box juste behind me that is working very well. I don't use compiz on a regular basis, but it works
mstrobert: fosco: And that's with which driver?
mstrobert: fosco: ok
mstrobert: libv airlied gusta1 fosco: Thanks a lot for your thoughts and info.
airlied: mstrobert: rs690 3d works for certain apps..
airlied: mstrobert: if you are happy with integrated chipsets..
mstrobert: airlied: Well, I'm not sure I want to get an IGP. In part because it's easier to select a graphics card with exactly what you want and pair it with a motherboard with exactly what you want.
fosco: it cou can get intel IGP, you're pretty sure it just work wirk DRI and all the stuff you want
mstrobert: fosco: hm, right. I'll look at that, too.
libv: Tigerchen: hrm, vt is broken here as soon as i attach an external monitor and start X
libv: Tigerchen: i guess this is the same issue
libv: so i am reproducing it
libv: lid fixes it
Obscene_CNN: hmm.. git just had a bugfix update for blanking
libv: Obscene_CNN: yeah, we were reproducing it here now too, and egbert found the fix
egbert: has anyone besides me reproduced the fix yet?
libv: egbert: we were reliably reproducing it, so i guess this reliably fixes it :)
Obscene_CNN: just did a git pull
egbert: ok, so i' can go and close the ticket :)
Obscene_CNN: well it doesn't cause me any problems that I can see
egbert: Obscene_CNN: :)
egbert: Obscene_CNN: it shouldn't. it's too simple for that.
Tigerchen: libv: nice
libv: notsonice, i have no real idea what is causing it yet :)
Tigerchen: libv: well still nicer then "no idea what you are talking about, worksforme, bug closed as invalid"
Tigerchen: libv: if you want something still nicer anmd don't mind rebootiung the notebook:
Tigerchen: try: attach monitor, start x, enable both monitors, disconnect monitor, restart x
Tigerchen: this will give you a whiteout and no possibility to reenable the panel or external
Tigerchen: gotta go to bed
libv: Tigerchen: ok, will poke further tomorrow... i really wonder what is happening here
egbert: libv: can you give me the bug id?
libv: egbert: not off hand, no
libv: but i am not sure whether this can be reproduced on non-m56 hw
egbert: i've looked for it. wasn't able to spot it immediately.
libv: feel free to try it
libvde: egbert: NEEDINFO was removed weeks ago
libvde: there was a huge thread on both irc and mail
egbert: libvde: so what?
yangman: re: Thinkpad resume issue. I'm having no such problem on a T60 with X1300. so, it's either X1400 specific, particular to his install, or the suspend tool he's using is doing something bad
yangman: (I don't have an account on the bugzilla so I figured I'd drop a note here)
libvde: egbert: i don't know what people had as a surrogate for it
libvde: egbert: the first thing that happened is that all needinfo bugs were set to assigned again
libvde: and then someone went "oh, we could've defined our own instead3
libvde: and then nobody bothered to go back and fix things or something
pdowling: anybody home?
xAFFE: yangman: I have an x1400 and with tuxonice it works flawlesss
xAFFE: pdowling: a bit ;)
pdowling: I've installed two deb packages of the radeonhd driver and I'm still looking at an 800x600 screen when it's capable of 1680x1050
xAFFE: pdowling: what does xrandr tell you about aviable resolutions?
pdowling: I am not familiar with xrandr
pdowling: can you help me with that?
xAFFE: just execute it on a shell without parameters, it tells you all aviable resolutions
xAFFE: also look in the X-server logs for warnigs (WW) and errors(EE)
pdowling: it says the resolutions available are all sub 800*600
xAFFE: hmm, as next thing, I would make sure, the radeonhd driver gets loaded probably. look after LoadModule: "radeonhd" in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
pdowling: btw, what should the driver be called in xorg.conf?
pdowling: hmmm I'm sure I tried manually editing the conf file and using that name, but didn't work
pdowling: there's no reference to "radeonhd" in the log file
pdowling: I installed the debs off an ubuntu mirror via wget and then dpkg -i
pdowling: should that put them in the list of available drivers?
pdowling: because I don't see a radeonhd entry when I look into System -> Administration -> "Screens and Graphics"
xAFFE: hmm, dont know what ubuntu does, I installed the driver from servers and then edited my xorg.conf by hand
xAFFE: sorry cant help you any further, need some sleep, have to get up in 5 hours again :/
pdowling: thanks anyway
michaellarabel: pdowling, try building the driver from source. The Ubuntu packages were outdated at last check.
pdowling: can you give me a specific URL to the source?
pdowling: I've been back and forth between x.org and various ubuntu sites, my head it not clear which is which
michaellarabel: Git: git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-radeonhd
pdowling: also, should I remove the deb packages?
michaellarabel: You should be able to leave them installed if you want, or could remove them.
pdowling: I dont seem to be able to run git from terminal
pdowling: haven't done that before
michaellarabel: Not trying to self link or anything, but I do have an Ubuntu + RadeonHD git guide.
pdowling: presumably it's like an svn call?
michaellarabel: I'll BRB in a minute if you still have problems.
pdowling: phoronix rocks
pdowling: self link all you like, no point re-writing stuff
michaellarabel: pdowling: are the steps working for you?
pdowling: need a bit more time :)
pdowling: asking for cdrom, hmmm
michaellarabel: During the apt-get process? If you don't have CD, go to System > Admin > Software Sources
michaellarabel: and uncheck the Ubuntu CD
pdowling: got the CD so should be ok, but I never like that
michaellarabel: Me neither, but changing the Software Sources can fix that.
pdowling: but in a rush, can wait :)
pdowling: seems first aot-get stage ran ok
pdowling: updated xorg.conf
pdowling: presumably I need to shut everything down and restart now
pdowling: fingers crossed
michaellarabel: What did the log say?
pdowling: no reference to radeonhd
michaellarabel: What was the error then?
pdowling: in the ubuntu System Log viewer would the latest results be at the top or bottom?
michaellarabel: Look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
michaellarabel: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE may be the easiest for you
pdowling: what's this mean: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE may be the easiest for you
michaellarabel: cat displays the contents of the log, and then piping it to grep where it will only print lines containing EE
pdowling: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
pdowling: (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
pdowling: (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
michaellarabel: EE is for showing errors
michaellarabel: /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old if you already restarted the X server then.
pdowling: same result
pdowling: I got to run
pdowling: back in 20 minuts
michaellarabel: Okay, so what had happened exactly when you started X with radeonhd?
pdowling: if there's no log reference containing the string radeonhd, does that mean it hasn't tried to run that driver?
pdowling: I got the "running in low graphics mode"
pdowling: I looked in there and both in the driver list and list by manufacturer there is no string that says "radeonhd"
michaellarabel: Ah, BulletProofX... How I hate it...
pdowling: I cancelled out of this UI and eventually it seemed to startup of it's own accord in the current mode
pdowling: seems like a really good idea to me, in theory
pdowling: i suppose if you are familiar with debugging without that BulletProofX UI, it's going to be annoying?
airlied: pdowling: the theory is fine, the actual implementation is bonghits..
pdowling: fair enough
pdowling: first version syndrome
michaellarabel: pdowing: So you had completed the installation process you say?
pdowling: got all the tools (step1 )
pdowling: downloaded with git
pdowling: edited xorg.conf
pdowling: I can double check
michaellarabel: make install?
pdowling: ran this line AFAIK
pdowling: cd xf86-video-radeonhd/; ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr/; make; sudo make install
pdowling: yeah it's in my terminal history
michaellarabel: What does your xorg.conf look like? Had you made any non-basic modifications to that before?
pdowling: oh I'd definitely screwed the conf up big time but then I overwrote it with the failsafe version
pdowling: can I paste it somewhere
michaellarabel: Sure, or email it to firstname.lastname@example.org.
pdowling: on way
michaellarabel: It looks fine from a glance, though you could strip some things out and even make it more bare, without knowing what your problem is.
pdowling: some factors that might be influencing things are that I'm connecting via a KVM
pdowling: and that there may be issues with my particular monitor - Samsung SynMaster 205BW
pdowling: I've seen a conf on the xorg site for it
pdowling: and the commentary around this conf seems to suggest problems
michaellarabel: I'll reply to your email with a stripped down conf you could try.
insta: is avivo supported on linux?
michaellarabel: Avivo as in the Advanced Video In Video Out? No Video In support.
insta: well, i'm more looking for hardware-accelerated transcoding and playback
michaellarabel: Right now fglrx just supports TexturedVideo/X-Video. RadeonHD isn't yet at that stage.
insta: michaellarabel: do you know much about it on the windows side?
michaellarabel: insta: I don't know much about their Windows side, aside from knowing it's better.
insta: any suggestions on a channel i can harass then? #ati is rather mum unfortunately
michaellarabel: What specifically do you want to find out about it?
insta: i have two different areas to discuss, playback and transcoding ... i'm more interested in transcoding at the moment. i'm wondering how to gauge a card's approximate performance (so i can get the best transcoding card for the buck), and how crossfire affects the performance or results
michaellarabel: Hmmm... not sure of any Windows ATI IRC channels, but you may be better off trying some forums.
michaellarabel: For Windows users & hardware, techreport.com and hardforum.com are two popular ones.
michaellarabel: pdowling: I sent you a very basic radeonhd xorg.conf if you want to try that.
pdowling_: net connection died, firefox restart also killed chatzilla ...
pdowling: no luck
pdowling: no errors
pdowling: maybe it's time to go up the shop and buy an nVidia card
michaellarabel: Is it still going to BulletProofX?
pdowling: I'm just clicking Continue now
michaellarabel: If you want to kill it, edit /etc/gdm/gdm.conf and remove the line (or comment out) that reads: FailsafeXServer=/etc/gdm/failsafeXServer
pdowling: does BulletProofX mask or prevent errors from getting to the log file?
pdowling: will that help?
pdowling: I'm more than happy to turn on all debugging output
michaellarabel: It will then show the error or the problem on the screen after it tries starting X and fails.
pdowling: getting tired of re-logging into IRC :)
pdowling: Failed to loade module "pcidata" (modeule does not exist, 0)
pdowling: cant boot X now
pdowling: lucky I've got a windows box
michaellarabel: Well, you could just edit the driver line to go back to vesa. What version of Ubuntu are you running?
pdowling: true, forgot about vesa
pdowling: are we out of options?
michaellarabel: I haven't specifically run into a problem with loading "pcidata" module before. Is libpciaccess installed?
michaellarabel: Or rather is libpcidata.so in /usr/lib/xorg/modules
pdowling: i'll check
pdowling: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libpcidata.so exists
insta: i lied, i have more questions about vivo ...
insta: i've got a sempron 3000+ that i want to use for a media machine to play back tops 720p content
insta: will vivo help me play some of that back?
michaellarabel: pdowling: hmmm. What problem was it that you ran into when using the Ubuntu package?
pdowling: the ubuntu package just didn't seem to load
pdowling: I mean the package installed but nothing seemed to happen
michaellarabel: had you edited the xorg.conf?
pdowling: not sure
pdowling: I'll try again
michaellarabel: You could try switching back to your earlier xorg.conf then and reinstall the deb.
pdowling: actually I did have radeonhd specified in my previous xorg.conf
pdowling: and I just tried to restart and it gives same error
pdowling: is it possible to uninstall the radeonhd driver I compiled following your instructions?
insta: michaellarabel: will you be available for linux vivo questions in a bit?
pdowling: I'd like to try and get back to a clean slate then try again
michaellarabel: sudo make uninstall when in the xf86-video-radeonhd directory
pdowling: cool thanks
michaellarabel: I'm sure the pcidata problem is simple, I just haven't run into it on any test system.
pdowling: I set the config back to vesa and it still had the same error
pdowling: only way to get X running again is failsafge
pdowling: the pcidata problem has happened en masse in the past http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=8566
michaellarabel: Hmm, I see. Anyways, I need to get going. I'll be back in a few hours. Good luck with the issue.