ilm: is it possible yet to set a fixed dpi ? i tried the "DisplaySize 338 270", but after restarting X (ctrl-alt-backspace) xdpyinfo and the log still give the old dpi
ilm: hi btw and happy newyear
ilm: *bump* ;-)
ilm: k, i installed 1.1.0 which gives a higher dpi automatically (86 instead of 76). i'm trying to use Option "forceDPI" "96" now, but doesnt work
bahadunn: has amd released the specs for 2d, 3d, and video accel yet?
libv: bahadunn: not that i know of :)
libv: bahadunn: plus, you're asking for a lot in one go
bahadunn: libv: yes I know
bahadunn: libv: sorry about that ;)
bahadunn: just trying to get a feel for the progress is all
bahadunn: any idea when amd will release more specs?
Sir_Lewk: arn't they supposed to be released with the January driver?
Sir_Lewk: or is that something else?
bahadunn: I have no idea
bahadunn: from what I have read though it sounds like the open source driver has been developed as far as the current specs will allow and any further development will require more specs to be released
bahadunn: could be wrong though
bahadunn: I am not sure which is why I am here
bahadunn: I am seriously considering moving back to ati equipment based on amd becoming more open
bahadunn: and if open source drivers will be able to drive ati equipment in the next 6 months or a years time and I can live with fglrx until then I think I will put my money into supporting amd since I am happy they are moving toward being open
ilm: thought 3d was going to be released this week
ilm: they were looking to host it on the amd site instead of xorg
ilm: video accerelation was a thougher issue, didnt you read phoronix ?
bahadunn: dont they have to release 2d before 3d?
bahadunn: ilm: yes I read some stuff on that site
ilm: hmm might be 2d then, don't know exactly
bahadunn: but I do not know or fully understand all the terminology
ilm: me neither :-) http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjI2MQ
bahadunn: what is this site about anyways?
bahadunn: they seem to cover a lot of open source stuff
bahadunn: I quite like it
bahadunn: I added their rss feed to my feed reader
ilm: it's focussed on linux hardware. though kernel releases, etc... are mentionned as well
bahadunn: cool
friederike: i am using radeonhd on my opensuse 10.3 and get the following error when doing "xrandr --output VGA_1 --auto" : "X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)"
Sir_Lewk: what is the difference between video playback and 2d acceleration? Is video playback talking about stuff like mplayers 'xv' driver?
marcheu: yup
friederike: see more at http://pastebin.com/m2cee5154
friederike: is there any estimation when xv support is coming? it is needed by skype ...
Planes: better question when will we see those 2d docs ? wish it's today or tomorrow
friederike: libv: should i update my xserver, or is it a problem with the driver?
libv: friederike: hrm, just the xrandr utility if i remember correctly
friederike: libv is there an easy way to compile just xrandr or is it enough to update to xorg-x11-7.3-143.2 from the buildservice? i am currently running xorg-x11-7.2-135.4.
libv: friederike: i think you need to take it from git
libv: friederike: sndirsch has the information and he will paste it, even though, apparently, he isn't in here :)
libv: i'll paste it on
libv: friederike: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/sndirsch:/xorg74/openSUSE_10.3/
libv: friederike: --> xorg-x11 package
friederike: thanks libv just installin
friederike: will take some time ;)
libv: hrm, is this a full update?
friederike: libv i updated the whole xserver from sndirsch:/xorg74 but now the radeonhd driver has a major abi version mismatch :-(
libv: friederike: hrm, recompile the driver :)
libv: friederike: you were already using 10.3 right?
libv: friederike: have you updated more than just the xorg x11 tools?
friederike: i did a zypper up --type package after adding sndirsch:/xorg74 libv
libv: right, so more got upgraded thn just the xorg-x11 utils?
libv: friederike: btw, sndirsch just joined himself :)
friederike: libv yes i think around 80 packages got updated. (i have installed most of the -devel packages) ...
friederike: sndirsch: is there a radeonhd driver in the buildservice for sndirsch:/xorg74 ?
sndirsch: friederike: just a moment
sndirsch: 80 packages. Then you're now running Factory WRT to X.Org.
sndirsch: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Drivers:/Video:/radeonhd/openSUSE_Factory/
sndirsch: This package should work.
sndirsch: Or recompile the driver yourself.
friederike: btw. i just tried to compile the driver msyself and ./configure ran through successfully but make complained about missing xorg-server.h ...
friederike: thanks sndirsch will try
rmh3093: libv, happy newyear
sndirsch: friederike: I think you're missing the xorg-x11-server-sdk package.
libv: rmh3093: thanks, same to you :) May we and AMD provide you with magical things like some working 3d somewhere in this year :)
friederike: just thought ./connfigure should complain a little more... btw. the factory package works ;)
friederike: sndirsch: the factory package works
friederike: and my external vga display now works like a charm, thanks to everybody!
friederike: libv: i added a "Virtual 1650 1050" to my xorg.conf and now i can choose 1680x1050 with xrandr, but on the right and left there are around 2cm cut off ;)
udovdh: how come the latter?
udovdh: maybe let the monitor re-adjust if on analog VGA?
udovdh: (i still have a display with that size on order, so it is interesting to me)
friederike: udovdh: it is a new tft flat panel. i am using it with dvi from an intel card without a problem ;)
udovdh: dvi-a or dvi-d?
rmh3093: libv, did those new amd docs drop yet
udovdh: i guess next week is the first real work week?
dreamer: has ati said when they plan to release specs for 3d in the radeonhd driver yet?
udovdh: this year?
udovdh: it depends on amd (the willingness)
udovdh: but also on possibilties (drm issues)
udovdh: and manpower
udovdh: (which is limited?)
dreamer: what ever happened to their press release of our new gpu will have open sourced drivers =( ::sob::
dreamer: nvidia keeps releaseing trash, but ati still isn't even an option
mekius: not an option?
mekius: how so?
dreamer: i'm trying to find a card i can do quad head with compiz on
dreamer: nvidia's cards i can't get any combination of twinview/xinerama to work, and afik ati cards aren't cabable with fglrx
dreamer: although i'd love for that to be missinformation
dreamer: i'd like to get one of the new amd quad core's with 4 dual head cards and do an 8 head compiz setup on there, but with it being new and not being able to find anyone that's made it work i don't want to sink that kind of cash into it
dreamer: just to have it not work
dreamer: i've been holding my breath for the last year that ati would actually follow through on the drivers, so i can get commit to what kind of cards i want to use
udovdh: dreamer, quad?
udovdh: and with eyecandy etc?
udovdh: is your nick right?
dreamer: yea, i've got dual and quad working with nvidia stuff before
udovdh: the open source driver is still only 1.1.0
udovdh: you have to understand that software development tales time
dreamer: with compiz, they just won't work with xinerama/twinview, which i need
udovdh: takes...
udovdh: also there's the documentation which has to come first
dreamer: i know that, but releasing specs take one click to send, the hardware was build, and win driver written, they have that documentation
udovdh: so if you are in a hurry this is not the right hardware
dreamer: *built
dreamer: i know, there is no right hardware, i was just hoping to a light in a dark tunnel :)
udovdh: there is light
udovdh: and it is not a train
udovdh: it takes more time
udovdh: at least, that is what I gather from the current situation
udovdh: patches are welcome :-)
dreamer: thanks for the encouragement ;)
bahadunn: I understand the problems with UVD/DRM for the open source drivers
bahadunn: but does that mean that even the close source drivers will not ever support accel video playback?
bahadunn: is linux ever going to have accel video playback I wonder
udovdh: closed source for win32 does support al features?
udovdh: or not?
udovdh: linux in general does have supported video playback on e.g. VIA
udovdh: openchrome works like a charm
udovdh: for ATI it depends on the chip model, I learned
udovdh: the chip design determines waht can be released in documentation
udovdh: and UVD is problematic there
udovdh: I don't know much more about this
bahadunn: I have read and been told that for nvidia (purevideo) and ati (avivo) there is no linux support
bahadunn: I am pretty sure I heard that even though there is hardware to do video playback there is no linux support for them
bahadunn: I do not want to purchase the most powerful cpu to decode hd video
bahadunn: I want to use a low power energy efficient cpu
bahadunn: it would be nice to have a graphics card which I can use all its features too
bahadunn: that is what I am hoping for with amd open source drivers
glisse: bahadunn: well if i am not wrong first problem on linux is that there isn't a proper api to expose hw video decoding acceleration of recent video codec
mekius: XV?
mjg59: Intel are working on one
mjg59: No, Xv and XvMC don't provide a decent way of exposing the functionality available in modern cards
mekius: i see
mjg59: XvMC is only really useful up to MPEG2
bahadunn: so will linux ever have video decoding?
mjg59: Yes.
bahadunn: any idea when?
mjg59: Intel is working on an API that's targetted at a product due to be released this year
marcheu: bahadunn: honestly, Xv is more than enough for 90% of the movies you can get
udovdh: bahadunn, maybe one of the experts here can tell you what ATI model (chip) has the best chances of getting most of the features implemented in ope source
marcheu: mjg59: I don't think there's consensus around it, even inside intel. last I heard keithp didn't even know what's in :)
mjg59: marcheu: Yeah, it's being worked on by the embedded people
mjg59: But it ought to at least serve as a starting point
marcheu: I don't know. recently I've been thinking that the solution is to implement decoders in opengl directly
bahadunn: so what is a good setup for playing hd video hardware wise?
marcheu: Xv being more a stop-gap measure, or the last stage of such a pipeline depending on how you look at it
mjg59: Well, we're also going to have to deal with hardware that has HD decoding capability without it being part of the 3D core (or the chip having any sort of real 3D)
marcheu: sure, but us (linux/open source guys) don't have the manpower to implement a huge & flexible API like vaapi
marcheu: especially if you consider all the hw families & variations involved
bahadunn: what exactly does 2d mean?
bahadunn: you guys using the radeonhd driver now?
marcheu: no I use nouveau :p
bahadunn: oh
bahadunn: I have heard of that
bahadunn: need to read more about it
marcheu: really there's no way for HD decoding in hw for linux ATM...
marcheu: even binary drivers don't do it
marcheu: probably you should be getting a CPU as beefy as possible :)
bahadunn: so what hope is there for that sort of thing in linux in the future?
bahadunn: what cpu would be suffient?
bahadunn: I will not buy a $1000 cpu for video playback
marcheu: I don't know, as I said there's no clear API for now
bahadunn: okay
marcheu: and I don't know how far we are from partial CPU-based decoding TBH
marcheu: really with nouveau we're hoping that CPUs will be improving fast to allow that, and we provide an optimized last step (Xv) to it
udovdh: HD?
udovdh: Is there any content?
udovdh: at a cheap price?
udovdh: not so over jere
udovdh: here, AFAIK
marcheu: udovdh: yeah there's not much for now, that doesn't solve the technical issue though
udovdh: indeed, that is true
udovdh: and maybe my VIA can do 1080p?
marcheu: what chip is that ?
udovdh: oh well. just wait; all will happen, in time.
marcheu: not really. in open source things happen if you do them
udovdh: you may look at the via EX board
udovdh: it might do waht you want
marcheu: I don't want to switch hw, I'll fix the drivers instead :)
udovdh: but my experience is limited to an EN board there
udovdh: good! just send in patches!
marcheu: heh :)
bahadunn: there is tons of hd content online
marcheu: well if that's like elephant's dream 1080p, it's not HD, the bitrate is half of real HD movies
bahadunn: there is mariposa tv
bahadunn: I assure you it is hd 720p and 1080p
marcheu: can you download sample vids there ?
Planes: Just reed the backlog, isn't the libva project on fd.o target for current and futur video hardware decoding, but still work in progress ??
marcheu: hmm I don't think it's real HD. elephant's dream is ~900MB and ~10 minutes, and it's not real HD. That one is ~1400MB for 28 minutes
marcheu: so it's no higher bitrate than elephants dream
marcheu: the HD DVDs have higher bitrate than that (about twice)
bahadunn: marcheu: I dont know
bahadunn: marcheu: you can download full vids using bittorrent from there
marcheu: yeah I saw that. elephants dream is ~80MB/minute, while mariposa seems more like 50MB/minute
marcheu: ah well, I'll add it to my testing movies anyway :)
bahadunn: marcheu: what kind of system to you have for playback of hd content?
marcheu: well as I said I never player "real" HD. but my athlon 2600 + 6200 + nouveau can do elephants dream 1080 real time
marcheu: never played*
marcheu: no actually I think that was with the NV30... so s/6200/quadro fx 1000/
kaje: Can someone point me to an example xorg.conf file that sets up a dual monitor display using radeonhd?
marcheu: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/dualhead.html
kaje: what is RandR?
bobbens: randr is an extension or something like that
bobbens: xrandr is to manipulate it realtime
kaje1: I think I am really close to getting my thinkpad working with a dual screen setup. Here is my xorg.conf: http://pastebin.com/m5c19e96a
kaje1: The left screen displays nicely at 1680x1050... The right is not displaying correctly though... it should be at 1600x1200
kaje1: Any help would be GREATLY appreciated... I've been struggling with this thing all day
Temujin_: kaje1: so what is the right screen displaying?
kaje1: Temujin_: Not sure, I think it might be displaying 1680x1050
kaje1: Temujin_: I think it is displaying 1280x800
Temujin_: i would look at your /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see if you can get a hint there
Temujin_: also..
Temujin_: have you tried option "DPMS" on the CRT?
kaje1: nope... one sec and I'll post my xorg log
kaje1: Well, I couldn't get it all in the pastebin... http://pastebin.com/m649bc0fd
kaje1: Let me know if you need something from the head of the log
kaje1: How do I try the DPMS option?
mjt: blah. radeonhd finds TWO monitors connected to a DVI-D output of X1200, one with native resolution (1024x1280) and another with smaller (800x1024), and tries to init them in a endless loop... But the thing is that there's only one monitor connected.....
kaje1: sorry, DC'd
kaje1: Temujin_: How do I try the DPMS option?
Temujin_: Option "DPMS" in the Monitor section
pasky: Hi! I'd like to ask, what's the ETA for 2d acceleration and xv support? Are the specs scheduled to be released already? Is it sure that they _will_ be released? Should I put my hopes on "in a month" or "in a year"? :)
ajax: they work in radeon, at least for r500.
agd5f: pasky: Xv will require 3d
airlied: well xv doesn't but 2d does..
ajax: my mistake.
pasky: ok, so how long will 3d take? ;)
airlied: pasky: how long is a piece of string..
pasky: 38 characters