gQuigs: I have an RV250 (Mobility FireGL 9000) with linux performance significantly under Windows
gQuigs: http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=quigs-7728-14499-30009
gQuigs: for instance urban terror is unplayable on Linux, while it is playable on Windows
gQuigs: any suggestions / things to try would be very welcome
damentz: gQuigs: i'm guessing the first thing you would need is more video ram or reduce some back buffer usage
damentz: gQuigs: MostAwesomeDude recommended that you add Option FBTexPercent "0" to xorg.conf
damentz: and use Option GARTSize "
damentz: and using the entire video ram for exa
damentz: after that, you can enable some other options like EnablePageFlip "true"
gQuigs: thanks for suggestions will try...
damentz: and you can tune your other settings with driconf
damentz: gQuigs: but try reducing texture detail to minimum and use 16bit textures
damentz: if you notice a huge increase in speed
damentz: then it is definitely some issue with texture allocation
arrenlex: Is the radeon driver supposed to be comparable in performance to the windows ati driver, then?
damentz: i'm able to play warsow at 60fps most of the time w/ a mobility radeon 7500 on 640x480 online with mostly everything set to the highest
damentz: arrenlex: no, it has only opengl 1.3 support
damentz: and it's not optimized for speed
damentz: that would require a lot of man hours doing something else than implementing newer features
damentz: the biggest culprit is simpler memory management that is currently used by the radeon driver
damentz: that's why GEM and Gallium are being worked on
gQuigs: so I shouldn't expect it to be quite comparable to windows driver yet?
damentz: nope
damentz: it only has opengl 1.3 support
damentz: the moment use use a newer feature
damentz: your fps should drop from like 60 to 1
damentz: or it won't work at all
damentz: but most of the problems are due to memory management
damentz: and that's whats being worked on
gQuigs: what opengl would the windows driver support for this card?
damentz: airlied or someone else told me that in order to implement newer opengl features, they need first a better memory manager
damentz: gQuigs: the latest the hardware can support
damentz: gQuigs: i think the radeon 9500 and up support opengl 2.1
damentz: directx 9 compatible cards are all opengl 2.1 and up i think
gQuigs: ah ok
damentz: a radeon 8500 with the windows ati driver can play doom 3 with all the settings to the highest... but a little slow due to low video ram
damentz: so i think those cards support opengl 2.1 too
damentz: gQuigs: i'm really really stoked about the work everyones doing for the intel and radeon drivers
gQuigs: damentz: I have been following it quite closely myself
gQuigs: should be a really exciting 2009 for linux graphics
gQuigs: ty damentz I've improved it a little bit, but that's enough for tonight
damentz: ok, good night gQuigs
damentz: gn8
Erektium: when will we see opengl 2.0?
MrCooper: with a Gallium based driver, at the latest
Erektium: mkay
FriarLaurence: hi
FriarLaurence: i cant successfully use radeonhd. can anyone please help? supertuxkart says: FATAL: ssgInit called without a valid OpenGL context. another user on the computer can start videogames but they work very slow. i have a radeon x1270 (rs690)
MrCooper: FriarLaurence: #radeonhd
FriarLaurence: no one answers there
FriarLaurence: maybe the people there dont know
FriarLaurence: what does this mean? unknown chip id 0x791f, can't guess.
FriarLaurence: libGL warning: 3D driver returned no fbconfigs.
MrCooper: it means you need to upgrade Mesa
FriarLaurence: really?
FriarLaurence: ok, ill try that
manfred_spraul: What's the right place to report memory corruption reports, probably related to mouse movements?
manfred_spraul: Radeon HD 3100, Fedora 10 based system
manfred_spraul: I've created a fedora bug report: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478622
MostAwesomeDude: Here and there, so yeah.
val1: if you have to choose between 2 cards which one would you rather use? radeon 3650 or radeon 4350
ball: hello val1
ball: Is a programmable shader mostly useful for games?
MostAwesomeDude: ball: It's required for pretty much everything.
ball: MostAwesomeDude: helpful for video playback?
RTFM_FTW: yes
ball: Interesting
RTFM_FTW: color-space conversion for example... or the application of advanced filtering algorithms (bicubic etc.)
RTFM_FTW: all of which will (to some extent) require the programmable pipeline
ball: Are there any R200 cards with DVI-D out?
zhasha_netbook: ball, my Radeon All-In-Wonder 7200 (R100) card has a DVI connector. I don't know what specs it lives up to though
ball: zhasha_netbook: thanks
ball: Are there many fanless Radeon boards?
zhasha_netbook: i don't think there's a single fanless radeon board unless you go way back to R100, but I don't know, it's just a guess
kdekorte: I have a fanless 3650 board
zhasha_netbook: seriously?
kdekorte: yes.... let me find the link
zhasha_netbook: does it have a heatsink the size of a small apartment then?
kdekorte: http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=2&l2=8&l3=637&l4=0&model=2120&modelmenu=1
kdekorte: yup...
kdekorte: and it runs pretty warm
kdekorte: I have a slot fan to help out... but the slot fan is still quieter than the fan that came on my 2600 card
kdekorte: so I replaced it
yangman: ball: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2900
ball: I thought I'd seen fanless 9250 boards
otaylor: ball: there are fanless r1xx/r2xxx/r3xx/r5xx/r6xx
val1: if you have to choose between 2 cards which one would you rather use? radeon 3650 or radeon 4350
bryce: is there a better tool than radeontool for getting register dumps with -ati?
bridgman: val1; the 3650 will probably draw a bit more power but has more shaders and wider memory bus; I would probably go with the 3650
val1: okay thanks
bridgman: I'm just checking a couple of reviews to confirm that, so don't buy in the next minute ;)
spstarr: has a Radeon HD 3650
val1: is it bad idea to turn off fan on the videocard? because i see same brand/chipset that is fanless
bridgman: yes, real bad; fanless cards need to have big heatsinks, low clocks etc...
astromme_: I have a fanless 3450 that works well... still have to use silly fglrx however...
bridgman: I have a fanless 3450 in my home PC; the HIS
val1: would i be able to use thirdparty heatsink for videocards?
val1: like you can do for cpu chips
astromme_: it has a gigantic heatsink that covers the entire board. Still a single slot card though
yangman: val1: you can. usually voids any warranties
astromme_: val1: And it's more tricky than with cpus that are meant to have their heatsinks changed out
astromme_: val1: I would go with a cheap 3450 from newegg if I were you. Only like $30 for the one I got.
astromme_: Newegg has pictures of the product so you can see which is fanless
val1: astromme_ isn't it better to buy 4350
astromme_: val1: Hmm, probably. However, when I looked (3 months ago) the only one I could find that was both fanless and near $30 was the 3450
val1: what does 4350 have that 3450 doesn't have
bridgman: 4350 was probably not out then; today I would definitely take 4350 or 4550 (4550 if possible) over 3450; it's only 3650 vs 43/4550 that is hard to choose
astromme_: I would assume... slightly faster clock/more shader units/possibly hdmi (however my 3450 does have hdmi, so it's based on manufacturer)
bridgman: I really like my 3450, but don't have time for gaming at home so...
MadMerlin: not every passively cooled card is slow
MadMerlin: i've got a passively cooled geforce 7950 gt, it's quite fast
val1: is it true that ati support both h264 and vc1 but nvidia only support vc1
val1: is it true that ati support both h264 and vc1 but nvidia only support h264
ball: What's a fanless basic AGP Radeon with open source drivers?
ball: ...and DVI out?
yangman: I have a passively cooled 4850. it's blazingly fast ;)
MadMerlin: that's a very narrow scope, you might have trouble finding one like that
bridgman: yangman; fan burned out ?
yangman: bridgman: no, the gigabyte one I linked earlier. it actually idles around 52C in windows. really impressive cooler performance
ball: drops a parameter
ball: What's a fanless basic AGP Radeon?
astromme_: ball: 3d drivers or 2d drivers? I'm pretty sure every radeon has oss 2d drivers
MadMerlin: mine is idling at 55C right now
ball: 2D is my main requirement, but I'm interested in 3D too.
bridgman: ball; if you want open source drivers *right now* then you need to look for an RV515 or something; all the cards have display/modesetting and shadowfb but 6xx/7xx accel is just starting to show up now
astromme_: ball: The 5xx family (so up to the 2xxx series) has 3d drivers in progress with radeonhd
ball: ...if I can get that
ball: What about R200 boards?
ball: (old ones?)
astromme_: I'm pretty sure they have 3d drivers with the radeon driver. (Those are like 9250, etc?)
zhasha_netbook: if you can find some place that sells them
bridgman: anything up to 5xx and rs690 has about the same level of support these days
ball: astromme_: something like would probably suit me.
bridgman: used to be that r200 etc were better but I think 3xx-5xx have pretty much caught up
ball: I've been using Rage XL for years
ball: My next machine will likely have an AGP slot
MadMerlin: i'd still like to have my x1400 at least as fast as my radeon 7500 for 2d instead of substantially slower
ball: ...so I'm thinking of a snappier video card, pref. with digital out so that I can eventually upgrade.
ball: ..my display
bridgman: ball; don't do it, go with pcie; everyone hates AGP ;)
MadMerlin: yeah, i don't think you can even find agp motherboards anymore
astromme_: ball: I would suggest pcie as well
ball: MadMerlin: I can ;-)
ball: Hmm... okay
ball: Are there fanless PCIe video cards though?
MadMerlin: yes
astromme_: ball: You can probably find a fanless dual dvi PCIe video card
MadMerlin: has a fanless dual dvi pcie card
mjr: wonders about upgrading to some dual dvi pcie radeon that'd be somewhat supported, so probably 5xx at this point...
astromme_: ball: For example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102808
ball: I probably shouldn't get a double-headed card
MadMerlin: why not?
ball: Then I'll feel compelled to buy two displays.
astromme_: My search query: http://tinyurl.com/9hz6ff
astromme_: ball: Lol =P. That's an interesting way of thinking about it
MadMerlin: 2 displays is nice
MadMerlin: i find single display machines incredibly painful to use now
ball: So is that something with open source 2D and 3D drivers?
MadMerlin: there's just no space for anything!
bridgman: I went with a DVI+VGA+TV card (the HIS 3450), that way I'll just be compelled to scrounge old displays
mjr: has two 1920x1200s on this home desktop, which is nice.
ball: MadMerlin: I routinely use a 12.5" VGA at 800x600
astromme_: ball: Yes, that will use the radeonhd drivers. They have some basic 3d support (can run compiz/kwin) and are improving
ball: brb
MadMerlin: has 2x 1600x1200s
MadMerlin: i find anything lower than 3200x1200 unusable
astromme_: MadMerlin: lol.... I'm on a 1024x768 laptop screen most of the time
bridgman: val1; here's a good comparison of 4350 vs 3650 :
bridgman: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3420&p=5
yangman: yeah, I'm finding a single 1920x1200 sort of restricting
MadMerlin: my laptop is 1400x1050, but i don't really use it for anything serious
astromme_: At school I use a 21 inch 1680x1050 screen and really like that. I have used dual displays and do really enjoy them but I've found that my laptop next to my desktop is good enough for most things
MadMerlin: has his laptop beside his dual display desktop
astromme_: If I had the funds for that I would probably have it... alas
bridgman: val1, not sure if your budget can swing a 4650, but if I were upgrading now I think that's what I would choose
bridgman: there's a fanless HIS 4650 with dual DVI and a spiffy heatsink
val1: i see
val1: my budget is $100
bridgman: $89 US
bridgman: at newegg
ball: ponders AGP Vs. PCIe
yangman: ball: PCIe
yangman: do the right thing ;)
bridgman: ball; PCIe
ball: smiles
bridgman: let's take a vote ;)
ball: Any single-head PCIe cards (with open source drivers, DVI out...) ?
MadMerlin: only get agp if you want a slower, more expensive and obsolete computer
bridgman: and reliability problems; did we mention reliability problems ?
bridgman: ;0)
ball: MadMerlin: hmm... do I get to think about that for a while?
bridgman: you have 5 minutes ;)
astromme_: ball: lol =P. I would suggest a pcie card and if it has dual head just tape over one or disconnect it to try and prevent you from getting a second screen
ball: :-)
astromme_: ball: Otherwise.... if you'll keep your old monitor when you upgrade to a digital display, get a card with 1 DVI/ 1 VGA and then have dual screens with your old and your new
ball: do dual-head cards have two GPUs, or just one that's capable of driving two displays?
astromme_: ball: Most have just 1
astromme_: ball: And in windows (with my experiance from 5 years ago, might have changed) they were only able to output 3d to one monitor. However, I don't think that's the case with linux
ball: I don't use Windows
bridgman: the fglrx driver can do 3d on multiple screens; not sure about open source yet
astromme_: ball: Neither do I, just was past experience
ball: ok
bridgman: ball; most modern GPUs have two display controllers
astromme_: bridgman: Interesting, news to me. A single GPU with 2 chips to control displays or do you mean 2 hardware outputs?
bridgman: it was done more so you could drive laptop screen plus external monitor, but when big LCD displays got (relatively) cheap it turned out to be real nice for dual display as well
ball: perhaps the display controller is a circuit inside the GPU
bridgman: astromme_; the display controllers are on the same die as the rest of the GPU
ball: (what bridgman said)
astromme_: bridgman: Ok, cool
bridgman: they're (holds fingers close together) only this big compared to the 3d engine ;)
ball: Do even server mainboards come with a 3D engine these days?
bridgman: I'm not sure; servers tend to be moving more and more to running "headless", ie no graphics other than via the network
MadMerlin: server motherboards aren't likely to come with integrated video
bridgman: there's usually something basic to let you see BIOS + console messages during boot but that's about it
MadMerlin: probably about half of regular consumer motherboards have integrated video
ball: I would rather have an RS-232 port, but I'm told that's old fassioned.
ball: (for the console)
RTFM_FTW: certain servers do ship with accelerated graphics... Apple's Xserve being one such example
bridgman: remembers the good old days when you could hook up a DecWriter to the console and not have to write things down
astromme_: ball: The sun server that I manage has a very poor built in vga but also has RS-232 as well as a dedicated server management port
RTFM_FTW: considering that the Window Server used on Mac OS X Server requires a GPU (for QE et al ) this is a good thing :D
astromme_: ball: The managment port is really cool, it lets me run the server and see its output from within a management console. (java of course, what else would sun use....) Sun's LOM (Lights on Manager)
ball: astromme_: which Sun?
ball: My SPARCstation 5 has a serial console :-)
astromme_: I don't remember the exact server model. I'm pretty sure it's a 2U rackmount with 2 dual core Opterons and 4gb of ram. I used it at my old school for a LTSP thin client lab
ball: Interesting. I almost went with a Sun server for a small site 160 miles S. of here, but I was told they were basically PCs now (the Opteron/Xeon models)
ball: ...so I bought a PC
ball: Didn't know they retained the serial console.
ball: OpenFirmware?
astromme_: ball: I don't remember, never messed with it much
astromme_: ball: It was more of a "setup with an Edubuntu LTSP server and let sit"
bridgman: fyi powercolor has a really neat looking passive 4650
bridgman: looks like it has a small building over the GPU
astromme_: bridgman: That's pretty awesome
ball: astromme_: that's on my list of things to try.
ball: ...but my current hardware's really pushing it.
astromme_: ball: Yeah, the ram and the network speed was really the important part
astromme_: For more than 10 computers the gigabit network from the switch to the server really really helped. Each client only had 10/100 but that was fine because they were blended together onto a 10/100/1000 line to the server
ball: nods
MadMerlin: i love gigabit ethernet
ball: astromme_: that makes sense, using the switch as a buffer.
astromme_: MadMerlin: Yeah, so beautiful.
ball: No single terminal can max out the 1000baseT link
ball: ...to the server
MadMerlin: easily maxes out gigabit ethernet
ball: MadMerlin: right, but I'm talking about astromme_'s arrangement
astromme_: ball: I even had flash, sound, local devices (usb/cdrom/floppy) all working on the clients. It was really smooth
MadMerlin: right now i'm running 2 vms in kvm over the network with x11 forwarding
ball: astromme_: I wish I had more time and money to tinker with that.
astromme_: MadMerlin: The idea was to have a passive QoS by having the clients limited to 100baseT
MadMerlin: because my desktop doesn't have svm/vmx support, but my laptop does
MadMerlin: and it's just as fast as local
astromme_: and I didn't have to spend more money buying 10/100/1000 cards for the clients, nor did I have to buy a more expensive switch than what was needed.
ball: astromme_: and the server probably came with 1000baseT stock
ball: ...probably a separate interface for the connection to your LAN
astromme_: ball: Yeah, the server had 4 dedicated 1000baseT jacks. It was wonderful
ball: PCIe hopefully
ball: ...or at least a nice wide PCI bus
astromme_: No pcie, it might have had that pcix or whatever is more common on servers.
ball: nods
ball: That qualifies (as nice and wide)
astromme_: It was really quite wonderful and a joy to work with
ball: nods
DL21: hi
arrenlex: #winehackers looks dead right now... is there a list of code conventions for this project?
arrenlex: whoops, wrong channel :(
MadMerlin: arrenlex: sorta, it varies from file to file, usually you just need to follow the conventions around whatever you're changing
arrenlex: MadMerlin: I asked on the wrong channel, sorry.
MadMerlin: i know, but i knew the answer anyways
D3xt3r: what is the normal temperature for radeon hd 3650
bridgman: measured where ? die, package, heatsink ?
D3xt3r: diode
D3xt3r: is that same as die
bridgman: yep, diode is on the die
D3xt3r: okay
D3xt3r: what is the normal temperature for radeon hd 3650 on diode
bridgman: anecdotally 60-80C seems to be common, higher on the 4xxx
bridgman: that's from memory, give me a minute to check
bridgman: I'm at home so don't have access to datasheets or anything
spstarr: 80C isn
spstarr: 80C isn't enough to cook my pizza
D3xt3r: how do i underclock my gpu
D3xt3r: because i turned off my fan
bridgman: cpus are better for cooking pizza in general
D3xt3r: with fan on i get 46c
D3xt3r: but too loud
bridgman: which driver are you running ?
D3xt3r: amd oen
D3xt3r: amd/ati one
bridgman: I think there are some powerplay commands you can run using aticonfig
bridgman: you might want to ask on Phoronix
bridgman: http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Configuring
bridgman: that link will get you started with pwoer states; there's something like aticonfig --help for more info
bridgman: you may also be able to set power states from the ccc GUI, not sure
bridgman: spstarr; server racks are great for keeping pizza warm though...
spstarr: yes
spstarr: :)
spstarr: yummy
UnNamed: hi, i see anisotropic extension listed in glxinfo for a r300, is there a way to force it for all apps?
MostAwesomeDude: UnNamed: driconf has a setting.
UnNamed: which seems to do nothing
UnNamed: at least the game i try shows the same fuzzy roads with 1.0 or 16.0
MostAwesomeDude: If your app requests a lesser aniso, then IIRC driconf respects that.
MostAwesomeDude: Or...
MostAwesomeDude: Is your Mesa older than 7.1? There was some mishandling of aniso bits before.
UnNamed: aah, that could be, mesa 7.0.4
zhasha_netbook: MostAwesomeDude, what's the status on LLVM?